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Post by wormholeellis on Aug 3, 2008 16:29:20 GMT
As its been around for a couple of years now and hasn't really seemed to have achieved what it was setting out to do I thought hearing people's view on the elite panal would be good.
I considered applying this year but didn't for a number of reasons. I give a few and see if anyone agrees.
What I saw the panel as consisting of the officials of a certain standard rather than just the top 21 or however multiples of 7 it ends up to be. If it gets to the case when every member of BAFRA are good enough to be on it why shouldn't every BAFRA member be on the elite program. Similary if the standars drop why fill up all 21 places just for the sake of it.
The level needed to get on to the panal is not clear either as (I think this is right) selection goes on exam results, assessments and the opinions of the selection commitee. How can I be judged good enough if the only assessment I've had in the last 2 years was one where every member of the crew got around 95%.
One final one for the time being: one person said to me "its a way of getting good games". Should this be the only reason to go for elite program? It might just be my idealist views that the panel should be a way of improving the standard of officiating rather than making sure officials who have been around a long time get the best games. Although saying that the games chosen to have elite crews on don't seem to have been that worthy. The day after the last elite game, which was a total wash out, I did the knights and jets when both were undefeated after 5 or 6 games on a crew with only 2 out of 5 elite officials. Also is next week's match of the an undefeated team against a team who has scored 16 points all season a game I want to strive to be assigned to?
Hope that has started people thinking.
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Post by Ed Herk on Aug 3, 2008 19:53:24 GMT
The Elite Panel is a discussion provoking concept for sure.
There are officials on it who could be said "do not belong on it".
There are officials not on it who could be said that they "should be on it."
I am on it and have done precisely 2 "elite" games this year (1 in the college season and 1 in the senior season). Both games were complete whitewashes and not worthy of being designated elite games. It seemed that they were designated as elite games as a way of getting 6/7 men out on the field, rather than because they were the top games.
By contrast, as Ellis says there was a game between the Jets and the Knights that only had a 5 man crew and only 2 of the crew are on the elite panel! If there was a game that needed to be an elite game, it surely would have been that.
However, flip side of the coin. Due to holidays, injuries and drop outs, it has been nigh on impossible to cover all senior regular season games this year with 4 or 5 man crews, so taking 2 or 3 men from one crew to put onto another and making that an elite game has not really been possible from what I understand.
The only way around the scheduling problem has been to persuade teams to move games to a Saturday and then making those games elite games. However, most teams are used to playing on Sunday and thats when the games get played - leaving us with the same problem of covering games.
The only advantage of having officials out injured is that they have been able to assess games. I have been assessed twice this year, once in the college season and once in the senior season. I might have been assessed ONCE in the whole of 2007 and ONCE in the whole of each of the two years before.
What this all boils down to is:
WE NEED MORE OFFICIALS (WORTHY OF THE STRIPES).
With more officials, we can cover more games and we can cover more games with 6 or 7 men and make those Elite panel games. With more new officials in our ranks, we will also not have a case where over 20% of our membership is on the Elite panel.
Also do not forget that in 5 years time we may lose (or have lost) quite a few officials due to age or unwillingness to keep officiating on Sundays (rather than doing family things). As older officials on the elite panel drop off, there will be room for the younger, up and coming guys.
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Post by New(ish) Ref on Aug 3, 2008 22:46:55 GMT
It is my view that BAFRA, as an organisation, needs multiple levels of recognition of officials.
There needs to have levels of recognition in between qualifying (having done 10 games) and EFAF selection. I think we can debate what those should be (at present we have only one), but each stage should be achievable in a reasonable time frame by those with the ability, aptitude, attitude and commitment. Officials who want to improve, develop and grow should have those achievements recognised by BAFRA and, in my view, such recognition should only take 2-3 years, at most, for those achieving the necessary standards.
The Elite Panel is not just about the top games, it is about giving officials with a few years experience something to aim for, and a training program to allow officials to learn about working with, for example, 2 officials on each sideline. There is also nothing wrong with avoiding designating some of the top games as Elite games as it does give BAFRA the opportunity to assign officials who are not part of the Elite Panel to top games to give them experience and encouragement.
I worked my first 7 man crew and first time as a deep wing (SJ) in the 2002 Britbowl. Should I have worked a position and crew size for the first time ever in the biggest game in the domestic calendar? I would question that I should have. A program like the Elite Panel would have given me the opportunity to work that size of crew and that position before doing it in a bowl game. I am sure my performance would have benefited from doing so. Having experienced the frustrations of working subsequent games where individuals on the crew did not adjust to 7 man mechanics, the more experience officials have of working larger crews, the better in my opinion.
The current implementation may not be perfect in some eyes, but the existence of these sorts of programs is absolutely necessary in my opinion.
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Post by Osric Pureheart on Aug 4, 2008 0:02:49 GMT
Hear hear. My only objection to the Elite Programme at the moment is that we don't currently have enough numbers to make it work properly.
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Post by Ed Herk on Aug 4, 2008 13:01:36 GMT
Going slightly off in a tangent, does anyone think that BAFRA should try to put out 6 or 7 man crews on games that would not normally be classified as "elite" but (due to the circumstances surrounding them) warrant larger crews? E. G. 17 August I am down to do Kent v Sussex at Kent as the first of two games of a double header. I have a four man crew (including me). Sussex are 5-2 and Kent are 5-3. The loser of that game is virtually out of the playoffs, since Southern are also 5-3. Should this not be allocated as an Elite game? E. G. 2 The second game of the aforementioned double header is East Kent Mavericks v London Cobras at East Kent. Cobras are 8-0 and Mavericks are 6-3. Both teams are incredibly physical and aggressive. Wouldn't 6 pairs of eyes be better than 4 on this, especially since the crew would already have worked another potentially close and physical game at another location? I appreciate that the problem BAFRA has on 17 is the adbundance of games and shortage of officials (who schedules the most games in the middle of the summer holidays? ) but perhaps one or other of those games should have been moved to the Saturday. The Mavericks use a university rugby field that, I believe, is not used on Saturdays. I am not sure about Kent Exiles and Crockenhill FC (but we are outside of non-league soccer season IIRC). Pete J has a very hard job so I am not blaming him for allocating the crews as he has done, but I think that these two games are games that need good, large crews working them. Just because the games are in Divisions 1 and 2 respectively, it does not make them any less important to the teams playing in them. Its just as well that I have the week off after those games!
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Post by New(ish) Ref on Aug 4, 2008 14:40:54 GMT
Designating a game as an Elite game limits who may be assigned to it. Assigning larger crews to non-Elite games does reduce each person's game fee, and that may be an issue for some.
I can see your logic for crews bigger than 4 on double headers, but I assume that factors such as who is available and where the other games are come in to play as well.
As for who schedules that many games on a Sunday in August, I presume that this is down to the BAFL in consultation with BAFRA's advice on how many games we can cover on any given day.
Moving games to Saturdays is down to the teams in consultation with the BAFL and, presumably, is also dependent on the availability of home grounds. At this time of year, the football and rugby union seasons are starting up again which can constrain teams.
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Post by notaclue on Aug 5, 2008 15:02:22 GMT
you tell them ellis,stick it to the man. ps how's school.
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Post by sixty4goingonsix...teen on Aug 6, 2008 10:56:46 GMT
Hello
Having been on the original selection committee I to am very disappointed with the elite panel……we all voted who should be in or out and I put notes on officials that I did not give top marks to…..such as
How will the elite panel make MR XX officiate as good as he did 10 years ago How will the elite panel get MR YY to do a certain part of his mechanics correctly (no specifics can be given he he) How will the elite panel get MR ZZ to concentrate on the LOS before the snap (if you don’t know who that is …..well)
As far as I know none of these points have been addressed.
The name Elite should be The OK Panel
We are a small organization……..with some elite teams not even completing a full season……..as Osric states not enough officials plus not enough decent games….although I did do knight v jets and will be officiating knigts v blitz in 2 weeks time.
Must go now….work to do
ajob
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Post by New(ish) Ref on Aug 6, 2008 12:33:10 GMT
It is my view that this discussion forms part of a wider discussion on the grading or recognition structure within BAFRA. It is my view that BAFRA should have such a structure as it gives officials who wish to develop and improve something to aim for and recogintion for doing so when they do. Given this, the question becomes (i) how many levels/grades, (ii) what are the criteria for achieving and maintaining each grade?, and (iii) how many officials would/do we expect to be at each grade? i.e. - A fixed percentage of the active membership (irrespective of the number of active officials)?
- A fixed number of the active membership (irrespective of the number of active officials)?
- All members reaching a given standard or set of standards (irrespective of the number of active officials achieving this or the total number of active officials)?
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Post by sixty4goingonsix...teen on Aug 9, 2008 11:02:26 GMT
'I considered applying this year but didn't for a number of reasons'
wormholellis.......does the above statement sum up your ambitions?
if so then don't bother to apply for the next selection to the panel.
ajob
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Post by martinc on Aug 13, 2008 22:56:09 GMT
Having been in this game for some time i can say this, the problem witht he elite panel is twofold.
One, it creates a division within BAFRA that says that half of BAFRA is not good enough.
Two, it diverts much needed training and resources to a small few that are already supposed to be of a higher standard from those that are supposed to be of a lower standard and who potentially need the training.
I remember when we had a lot of refs and we then had the NDMA (national panel) this created an elite within BAFRA that got all the bowl games and good league games leaving everyone else to go whistle. Funny thing is a lot of refs said stuff it and left and we are now in a situation where we dont have enough refs.
We need to get all refs to the same standard and you cant do that if you only look at developing the chosen few
Martin #345
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Post by New(ish) Ref on Aug 14, 2008 9:18:50 GMT
Two, it diverts much needed training and resources to a small few that are already supposed to be of a higher standard from those that are supposed to be of a lower standard and who potentially need the training. The BAFRA Elite Programme Training Day on September 13th is open to all BAFRA members. See you there?
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Post by The Back Judge on Aug 14, 2008 11:00:10 GMT
As I understand it ALL Elite training events are open to ALL officials (as long as they notify the Director of Training in advance so he can plan for the numbers coming).
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Post by Ed Herk on Aug 14, 2008 12:50:34 GMT
I am aware that several "non-Elite" officials have been to the previous training days. The training days concentrate on working on 6 and 7 man crews for the most part, and the different mechanics required to work on larger crews. They are not just an excuse for the Elite Panel to have a get together and pat each other on the back!
Given that the only time a "non-Elite" official will usually work a 6 or 7 man crew is on a Bowl game, and given that ANY official can be selected for a Bowl game, it is highly recommended that "non-Elite" officials attend. Please note that it is MANDATORY for Elite panel officials to attend these sessions unless they have a over-riding good reason for their absence. Elite officials have to attend because Elite games are always 6 or 7 man crews.
Anyone with an ounce of ambition should therefore attend in case they are selected for a Bowl.
I worked a game (it was a 7 man crew) on the same sideline as an official who had an insubstantial grasp of reverse mechanics. He was an experienced official but it was clear that he wasn't used to working the wing with another official. Despite us going over reverse mechanics in the pre-game he didn't put the theory into practice.
Attending an Elite panel session on a voluntary basis may have avoided that problem.
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Post by Osric Pureheart on Aug 14, 2008 14:29:27 GMT
We need to get all refs to the same standard I don't think this is a realistic expectation. There's always going to be differing ability levels in any group of people, and some of those people are either going to be unwilling or unable to improve their skills at what they're doing, for whatever reason.
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